**************** *** 12-07-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time.@umich.edu Subject: Continuing Time... -------- Howdy. Anybody home over there? I was told there was a mailing list regarding my work at this address. Drop me a note, if so. Sincerely, Daniel Keys Moran **************** *** 12-07-94 *** **************** From: sean eric fagan To: d.moran8@genie.geis.com, continuing-time.@umich.edu Subject: Re: Continuing Time... -------- >Howdy. Anybody home over there? I was told there was a mailing list >regarding my work at this address. Drop me a note, if so. Wow, how coincidental! I spent a bit of time today trying to talk with someone In The Know at Bantam. (Never did get in touch with anyone.) Aaron Tucker dropped me a note that Locus gives Aug '95 as the date for _The A.I. War_. I dropped by my bookstore today and verified it -- Aug 95, _The A.I. War_, Daniel Moran (grrr). I'm signed up for my copy ;). With any luck, Abbey something-or-other at Bantam will return my call soon, and confirm this. The first person I spoke with at Bantam, btw, did not know of any forthcoming books by DKM, but admitted she was not in the SF division. I was going to sumamrize all of this later, but with a cue like this one, who can resist? ;) Sean. **************** *** 12-07-94 *** **************** From: "j.c. duval" To: continuing-time.@umich.edu, d.moran8@genie.geis.com Subject: Re: Continuing Time... -------- On Tue, 6 Dec 1994 d.moran8@genie.geis.com wrote: > Howdy. Anybody home over there? I was told there was a mailing list > regarding my work at this address. Drop me a note, if so. > > Sincerely, > > Daniel Keys Moran Hmm hopefully this is not a joke;). There is a mailing list at this adress but not too active these days. Here are a few things everyone on this list wants to know: 1)Next book's ETA? or at least has anything been turned in? I haven't seen anything in Locus but Locus is selective in the writers they cover. We want the next Trent book;). 2) Are there any copies of THE RING or that Long Run script floating around still? 3)Is it me or does your publisher seem to show very little interest in promoting your books? The Last Dancer had no publicity and the other books were not reprinted to accompany it. J.C. DuVal P.S.: Have you updated your timeline that was published in ASCII form a while back? **************** *** 12-07-94 *** **************** From: "mike rosenberg" To: continuing-time@umich.edu, d.moran8@genie.geis.com Subject: Re: Continuing Time... -------- hi! the mailing list hasn't had a lot of traffic lately, but your appearance may spark a new wave of activity :^) i, and probably everyone else, would love a brief update on what's going on... - how are you doing? - any possibility of switching publishers? - how have sales been on _the last dancer_ ? - any possibility of switching publishers? - are the older books ever going to be reprinted? - any possibility of switching publishers? - when do we get another book? - any possibility of switching publishers? - how about an update to the line line (if needed) ? obviously, i am assuming you are as mad at bantam as i am...if that's not the case, i would be interested in why. if it's none of my business, tell me and i'll shut up. and of course, thank you for writing my favorite book of all time (_the long run_)! mike mkr@fid.morgan.com **************** *** 12-08-94 *** **************** From: sean eric fagan To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Argh! -------- Bantam returned my call before I got into work this morning. Karin(?) says that neither she nor the other publicists think that Daniel Keys Moran is a Bantam author!!!! I'm calling back, obviously. Sean. **************** *** 12-08-94 *** **************** From: "mike rosenberg" To: continuing-time@umich.edu, sean eric fagan Subject: Re: Argh! -------- did you add moran to the mailing list? mike On Dec 8, 1:24pm, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > Subject: Argh! > Bantam returned my call before I got into work this morning. Karin(?) > says that neither she nor the other publicists think that Daniel Keys > Moran is a Bantam author!!!! > > I'm calling back, obviously. > > Sean. >-- End of excerpt from Sean Eric Fagan **************** *** 12-08-94 *** **************** From: charles clark To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Argh! -------- On Thu, 8 Dec 1994, Mike Rosenberg wrote: > did you add moran to the mailing list? The person claiming to be dkm has not asked to be subscribed to the list. -- cmclark "... another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult, whereas I am merely in disguise." -- Elaine Risley **************** *** 12-08-94 *** **************** From: sean eric fagan To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Bantam called me back again -------- This time it was a guy (forget his name). He apologised, and said he didn't know why anyone would think DKM wasn't an Bantam author, he certainly was. But "I don't think he has any upcoming books, through the end of summer." So I said, "Locus has _The AI War_ coming out in Aug. '95, by Bantam." He checked, and, sure enough, "You're right, there it is. But I don't think it's from us." "No, Locus says it's from Bantam." "Yep, it is. So it should be out in mid-July." He didn't know how many pages, or price. I am *still* not impressed with these guys! But: now I have confirmation. Another Daniel Keys Moran book, _The AI War_, will be out in the summer, and we'll all be so happy, we do the dance of joy. Sean. P.S. The guy also made a comment about DKM "running off with one of our assistants"; I don't know how serious he was, or if he was just being flip. [We were so foolish then! -ed] **************** *** 12-08-94 *** **************** From: "mike rosenberg" To: continuing-time@umich.edu, sean eric fagan Subject: Re: Bantam called me back again -------- is there a possibility that the genie correspondent is not the real dkm? i mean, there's always a possibility, but i can't imagine why someone would impersonate him. in any case that's GREAT news! i too, am supremely unimpressed with bantam. it's unfortunate they publish some of my favorite authors, or i would just boycott them. what happened to _lord november - the man-spacething war_ ? and didn't dkm say the second volume of _players_ (_revolution_) would follow hot on the heels of _ai war_ ? in fact, here: 3. There are two more novels coming about the Trent you have come to know and argue over. Unlike "Last Dancer," Trent will have about as much time on stage as in "The Long Run." The two books are due soon after "Lord November" -- and I do mean soon. They'll be published pretty much back to back. ZDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD? 3 "You say you want a Revolution 3 3 Well you know 3 3 We all want to change the world." 3 3 DD Lennon & McCartney 3 3 3 3 COMING IN 1994: 3 3 THE DISCOVERY OF STAR TRAVEL, 3 3 THE PASSING OF AN ERA, 3 3 AND THE END OF THE STORY OF 3 3 MOHAMMED VANCE, 3 3 DENICE CASTANAVERAS, 3 3 AND 3 3 TRENT THE UNCATCHABLE 3 3 3 CDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD4 3 3 3 P L A Y E R S: 3 3 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3 3 Book One: The AI War 3 3 Book Two: Revolution 3 3 3 @DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDY mike **************** *** 12-08-94 *** **************** From: dave@tso4a.can.cdc.com (dave weil) To: duvaljc@tornade.ere.umontreal.ca, continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Continuing Time... -------- "J.C. DuVal" writes: > On Tue, 6 Dec 1994 d.moran8@genie.geis.com wrote: > > Howdy. Anybody home over there? I was told there was a mailing list > > regarding my work at this address. Drop me a note, if so. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Daniel Keys Moran > Hmm hopefully this is not a joke;). [deletia] A friend of mine on GEnie claims this is legit - d.moran8@genie.geis.com really is Daniel Keys Moran. FWIW. Let's not accidentally mail-bomb him now, we don't want to distract him from his writing... :) - Dave **************** *** 12-08-94 *** **************** From: sean eric fagan To: dave@tso4a.can.cdc.com, continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Continuing Time... -------- Okay, DKM replied to my mail message(s) to him, and an off-the-cuff comment has convinced me it's him. He says that the AI war is not yet done -- almost, but not quite. So don't flood him with email, I want him to finish it before he talks to his devoted fans 8-). He also said he posted the first chapter of _Players: The AI War_ in his topic on GEnie (brust, jms, and now dkm -- makes me wish I had a modem so I could get a genie account). I imagine he'll be saying about the same thing to everyone else who sent him mail, which is why I decided to summarize, so we don't all flood him with mail individually ;). Sean. **************** *** 12-08-94 *** **************** From: colomon To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Continuing Time... -------- [Yesterday I wrote (and apparently got lost in the mail):] [Ack!! Sorry if I've posted this a zillion times, weird things are happening from my point of view.] Sean writes: >Aaron Tucker dropped me a note that Locus gives Aug '95 as the date for >_The A.I. War_. I dropped by my bookstore today and verified it -- Aug >95, _The A.I. War_, Daniel Moran (grrr). I'm signed up for my copy ;). Great news! Now, if _Lord November_ came out before then, we'd be sitting pretty. -Sol who is desperately trying to figure out how d.moran8@genie.geis.com can conclusively prove he is the real McCoy. (Other than, say, posting the first chapter of the A.I. War to the list.) ************************************************************* Today dave@tso4a.can.cdc.com (dave weil) writes: >A friend of mine on GEnie claims this is legit - d.moran8@genie.geis.com >really is Daniel Keys Moran. FWIW. > >Let's not accidentally mail-bomb him now, we don't want to distract him >from his writing... :) Let's hope it really is; it would be nice to get information right from the horse's mouth again. (I remember being in seventh heaven for days after the DKM Usenet posts a few years back.) On the other hand, I've seen "Geddy Lee" post to the Rush newsgroup and "Brian May" to the Queen mailing list, so I'm not about to get real excited yet. We list moderators are trying to establish contact with him, and get him info on the list. Also, expanding on what Dave says, please remember that there are several dozen of list subscribers and only one of him, and we want him to stay on the net, not to mention to write as fast as possible. So don't swamp him with zillions of frivolous e-mail messages. One message is probably the most you should send, and none wouldn't be at all bad. [Gack, just read SEF's latest message. Well, this is the third reminder not to flood him with e-mail.] Thanks, Solomon **************** *** 12-09-94 *** **************** From: rsu@primenet.com (rodrick su) To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Lord November first or The Player -------- According to DKM's posting 2 years ago(yes, that long ago), we are supposed to be getting Lord November, The Man-Spacething War first, and then the Player. The recent discussion on the group had lead me to believe that The Player, AI War & Revolution will come first. Which one will? [ Rodrick Su [ If at first you don't succeed, well, so much for ] [----------------------[ skydiving. [ ``Games of the Hangman'' ] [ rsu@primnet.com ]------------------------[ Victor O'Reilly ] **************** *** 12-08-94 *** **************** From: andrew mccoll To: continuing-time.@umich.edu, d.moran8@genie.geis.com Subject: Re: Continuing Time... -------- On Tue, 6 Dec 1994 d.moran8@genie.geis.com wrote: > Howdy. Anybody home over there? I was told there was a mailing list > regarding my work at this address. Drop me a note, if so. Hi There We read your books in the Oz as well but they are getting a bit tatty we cant seem to find any new copies. Could you give your publisher a kick in the head from us. Also Ive just finished rereading EE, TLR and TLD and I was wondering about something you mentioned in the TLD. Why does the Unification permit different voting systems in different countries. In the TLD you mentioned that Australia has almost twice the voting power of most other nations because it has a compulsory voting system. I was left wondering why those guardians of democracy in the Unification council allowed it to continue after the war. Skippy. PS Australia would have never caved in to the Fucking French. skippy@lethe.uwa.edu.au Anatidaephobia: The fear that University of Western Australia somewhere, somehow, a duck is Perth, Western Australia watching you. -Gary Larson **************** *** 12-10-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: duvaljc@tornade.ere.umontreal.ca Subject: Continuing Time... X-Genie-Id: 3560044 X-Genie-From: D.MORAN8 -------- Originally the book Players: The AI War was to be followed by Players: Crystal Wind. This has now changed -- "Crystal Wind" is simply going to be called "Crystal Wind." I originally envisioned these two books as being the two halves of a single large novel, but the deeper I got into "AI War" the more clear it became that this wouldn't be possible. "AI War" is Trent's novel; he's the focus character in virtually every scene. For a variety of plot reasons that grew increasingly clearer as I worked with AI War, I decided that "Crystal Wind" had to look a lot more like "Last Dancer," with multiple character viewpoints and an intertwined storyline. I can certainly create an ASCII version of the TLR screenplay, but I'm not sure what mailing it on the list would consist of -- among other things, GENIE gets cranky with extremely long letters. (If I just e-mail the current timeline to CONTINUING-TIME@UMICH.EDU, then everybody on this mailing list gets a copy? Is that how this works?) I also think TLD is better than TLR; but this appears to be a minority opinion among my hardcore fans. Not enough Trent in "Dancer," apparently ... You're welcome for my prompt reply. :-) **************** *** 12-10-94 *** **************** From: "j.c. duval" To: continuing-time@umich.edu, d.moran8@genie.geis.com Subject: Re: Continuing Time... -------- Hmmm I bounced this on the list because my mailer got screwed up and sent it only to me and Mr. Moran;). On Fri, 9 Dec 1994 d.moran8@genie.geis.com wrote: > Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 10:18:00 UTC > From:d.moran8@genie.geis.com > To: duvaljc@tornade.ere.umontreal.ca > Subject: Continuing Time... > I can certainly create an ASCII version of the TLR screenplay, but I'm > not sure what mailing it on the list would consist of -- among other > things, GENIE gets cranky with extremely long letters. (If I just e-mail > the current timeline to CONTINUING-TIME@UMICH.EDU, then everybody on > this mailing list gets a copy? Is that how this works?) Exactly. You realize of course that services like Genie are actually killing the Crystal Wind but of course that's another matter;). Since no one actually pays for the Wind, Genie is merely jumping on the bandwagon and overloading it. > I also think TLD is better than TLR; but this appears to be a minority > opinion among my hardcore fans. Not enough Trent in "Dancer," apparently ... Well I do prefer the Trent parts in TLD. But I am honest enough to admit that the overall result is better and mor complex than TLR. > You're welcome for my prompt reply. :-) > [Chapter One of the AI War was the next thing mailed. I've stashed it in a seperate archive. -S] [Next was a news release which I have just stashed, now called news_release, oddly enough. -S] **************** *** 12-11-94 *** **************** From: mkr@morgan.com (mike rosenberg) To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: news release -------- assuming we all agree that the news release should be posted to rec.arts.sf.written, who's going to do it? i'd be glad to, but i think it should only be posted once. so let's coordinate. mike **************** *** 12-12-94 *** **************** From: colomon To: d.moran8@genie.geis.com, continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Long Run Screenplay and such -------- DKM writes: >5. For a while I was selling copies of "The Long Run" screenplay. > I've pretty much ceased doing that; but I am making copies of > the screenplay available online. Several people have volunteered > to handle this; I'll let you know what's happening with it as > soon as I have more info. I don't know exactly what's going to happen yet, but I think we can set up an FTP site somewhere at Michigan. In the meantime, as soon as I have the material, I'll announce it and send it via e-mail to any who ask. mkr@morgan.com (mike rosenberg) writes: >assuming we all agree that the news release should be posted to >rec.arts.sf.written, who's going to do it? i'd be glad to, but i think >it should only be posted once. so let's coordinate. Sounds good to me. Anyone think Mike shouldn't do it? You might want to stick a blurb before or after advertising the mailing list, as well. :-) -Sol, the world's happiest list maintainer **************** *** 12-12-94 *** **************** From: "mike rosenberg" To: d.moran8@genie.geis.com, continuing-time@umich.edu, colomon Subject: Re: Long Run Screenplay and such -------- On Dec 11, 7:41pm, Solomon Foster wrote: > Subject: Long Run Screenplay and such > DKM writes: > >5. For a while I was selling copies of "The Long Run" screenplay. > > I've pretty much ceased doing that; but I am making copies of > > the screenplay available online. Several people have volunteered > > to handle this; I'll let you know what's happening with it as > > soon as I have more info. > > I don't know exactly what's going to happen yet, but I think we can set > up an FTP site somewhere at Michigan. In the meantime, as soon as I > have the material, I'll announce it and send it via e-mail to any who > ask. > > mkr@morgan.com (mike rosenberg) writes: > >assuming we all agree that the news release should be posted to > >rec.arts.sf.written, who's going to do it? i'd be glad to, but i think > >it should only be posted once. so let's coordinate. > > Sounds good to me. Anyone think Mike shouldn't do it? > You might want to stick a blurb before or after advertising the > mailing list, as well. :-) > > -Sol, > the world's happiest list maintainer >-- End of excerpt from Solomon Foster to late...i already did it, sans advertising. mike **************** *** 12-12-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Good news... -------- Was quite pleased today to find out that the Barnes & Noble in Manhattan has "The Last Dancer" on automatic re-order; it's been selling about 12 copies a month since it shipped, I've just been told. That's *very* good...and I am very pleased. I know the book's doing well, but I hadn't guessed it was doing that well. **************** *** 12-12-94 *** **************** From: "simon b. cardinale" To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Good news... -------- On Mon, 12 Dec 1994 d.moran8@genie.geis.com wrote: >Was quite pleased today to find out that the Barnes & Noble in Manhattan >has "The Last Dancer" on automatic re-order; it's been selling about 12 >copies a month since it shipped, I've just been told. That's *very* >good...and I am very pleased. I know the book's doing well, but I hadn't >guessed it was doing that well. I bet the Long Run would do as well if it were in print. **************** *** 12-12-94 *** **************** From: simon tak lam tong To: d.moran8@genie.geis.com, continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Good news... -------- > I bet the Long Run would do as well if it were in print. I have been buying second-hand copies of DKM's books whenever I can find them and giving them to friends, and everyone loves them. I bet _The Long Run_ would do even better than _The Last Dancer_ if it were in print. **************** *** 12-14-94 *** **************** From: "j.c. duval" To: continuing-time@umich.edu, d.moran8@genie.geis.com Subject: Re: News Release... -------- On Sat, 10 Dec 1994 d.moran8@genie.geis.com wrote: > 3. In my last news release, about two years ago, I told > people that there would be two more Trent novels; there > won't be. I'm killing him in "Players: The AI War," for > a lot of good reasons -- his death is, well, interesting. > Even Trent fans should not be much outraged by it, I hope. Upon reading the last 200 pages of TLD for the xth time, Isn't Trent supposed to die and come back? "(...) that Trent The Uncatchable died, and rose again, and then vanished from the Continuing Time, perhaps forever. (p.459)" BTW: we are all outraged Trent fans on this list, you would have to turn into Robert Jordan to get more outraged Denice fans;). On an unrelated subject, what exactly happens between the time that Dvan and Denice have their last discussions with Sedon and the time she dumps him dead on the beach? and what happened to Dvan? My favorite theory is that Sedon is only faking his death but I'd rather think the PKF would have cremated him;). **************** *** 12-15-94 *** **************** From: andrew mccoll To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: News Release... -------- On Wed, 14 Dec 1994, J.C. DuVal wrote: > On an unrelated subject, what exactly happens between the time that Dvan > and Denice have their last discussions with Sedon and the time she dumps > him dead on the beach? and what happened to Dvan? My favorite theory is > that Sedon is only faking his death but I'd rather think the PKF would > have cremated him;). Yeah what happens to Dvan. He wasnt supposed to be that good a swimmer but can you drown an immortal? I reckon Sedon is dead and the PKF would probably toast the body to be sure. Remember they are efficient. Skippy skippy@lethe.uwa.edu.au Anatidaephobia: The fear that University of Western Australia somewhere, somehow, a duck is Perth, Western Australia watching you. -Gary Larson **************** *** 12-15-94 *** **************** From: "j.c. duval" To: continuing-time@umich.edu, d.moran8@genie.geis.com Subject: Re: News Release... -------- On Thu, 15 Dec 1994 d.moran8@genie.geis.com wrote: > duvaljc@tornade.ere.umontreal.ca writes: > >Upon reading the last 200 pages of TLD for the xth time, Isn't Trent > >supposed to die and come back? "(...) that Trent The Uncatchable died, > >and rose again, and then vanished from the Continuing Time, perhaps > >"Rose again" does not mean returned to the story; Trent doesn't. And >whether he *actually* rose again or not is a subject I'm not going to >even think about for a decade or so. I've got some stuff that I'll be >working on in another 15-20 years where this starts to become a relevant >question, but not right now. Since there will exist a Church of His Return, my conception was of a quick resurrection, perhaps a cyberspace one a la Pohl in the later Heechee novels, and a later disappearance in a flashy way to spread the Trent gospel;). Right now I don't see much supporting the rise of a major cult out of Trent, though this may change. > >you would have to turn into Robert Jordan to get more outraged Denice > >fans;). > > I don't understand this comment. Is Jordan a sexist, or worse? He's worse. Jordan is as bad as Eddings but with as wide a female audience as a male one. Jordan has combined elements from feminist fantasy (Zimmer Bradley, Norton and others) with elements form classical and recent fantasy (Tolkien and Eddings spring to mind). The viewpoints alternate from strong male characters to strong female, and feminists, characters and the result is a series of epic fantasy which appeals to both males and females (Check the Jordan newsgroup for further proof). This is one of the reasons I believe the Surgeon General should issue a warning on Jordan novels: they're composites of toxic fantasy waste. Even though TLD has a strong female protagonist, it remains a novel aimed at a largely male audience. A member of this audience will not identify with Dennice but rather with Trent, whom they already know and love. Varley's "Steel Beach" totally freaked me out when, after 100 pages in the novel, the protagonist suddenly goes from male to female in 3 pages. > >On an unrelated subject, what exactly happens between the time that Dvan > >and Denice have their last discussions with Sedon and the time she dumps > >him dead on the beach? and what happened to Dvan? My favorite theory is > >that Sedon is only faking his death but I'd rather think the PKF would > >have cremated him;). > > 1) Nothing happened; they all went into the water when the van went down. > Dvan got separated from Denice and Sedon; Sedon died in the water, of > his wounds. What wounds? I probably missed that, will have to read it again. Easy death for a man who ate several PKF Elite for breakfast;). > 2) Dvan is missing. We don't know what happened to him. You do;). > 3) Sedon is dead; the PKF didn't cremate him, they dissected him. Damn;). Oliver Stone could have made "Sedon: The Movie". **************** *** 12-15-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Files to be made available. X-Genie-Id: 4458555 X-Genie-From: D.MORAN8 -------- The following has been sent (US Mail) to Peter Durrell (DURRELL@NETCOM.COM), Sean Eric Fagan (SEF@KITHRUP.COM), and Solomon Foster (COLOMON@EECS.UMICH.EDU). They've all agreed to take steps to make these files available via anonymous FTP: o AFTERWRD.ASC is a collection of Afterwards from Emerald Eyes, The Long Run, and The Last Dancer. All were edited, against my wish, by Bantam. o BADNEWS.ASC is an article about the genesis of The Ring movie novel- ization. It was originally written for SFWA Bulletin, but ended up not being sent to them due to Bantam's unhappiness with the article. o CONTTIME.94 is a news release explaining the state of the Continuing Time as of December 1994. o CORRSPO.ASC is a short story written 6 or 7 years ago by my sister and me. It's one of the rare short stories I've ever written; and, looking at it all these years later, it's practically incoherent. I still enjoy it, though. "Correspondence" takes place on the "Sunset Strip" timeline shown at the back of "The Last Dancer." There's also a comic strip set in this universe that my sister and I hope to get back to some day. o DREAM.ASC is another piece of writing by my sister and me. It was a spec screenplay for what was at that time our favorite television show, HBO's "DREAM ON." We never even got past first base with this one -- despite having a high-power Hollywood agent submit it, we never heard back. We took it as a "no." o FACE.ASC is "The Face of Night." It was a proposal, originally, for a graphic novel at DC -- an editor over there was quite interested in it, but again, no joy. It's a part of the Continuing Time. o GIVEN.ASC is "Given the Game," a short story that originally appeared as the cover story of Aboriginal SF. o LONGRUN.ASC is the ASCII of "The Long Run" screenplay. o LORDNOV.ASC is the ASCII of the prolog and first two chapters of "Lord November: The Man-Spacething War." o REALTIME.ASC is the text of the short story "Realtime," which was the May 1985 cover of Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine. My sister Jodi and I have written a novel together, called "Terminal Freedom." It's at Ace SF right now; Bantam passed on it, unsurprisingly. If Ace passes, which they might, because it's a deeply wierd piece -- Jodi and I will be offering it as a signed & numbered limited edition. Having been burned a while back on sales of the TLR screenplay, I won't be handling this personally; I'll be looking at various methods of distribution for the novel. Terminal Freedom is set (roughly) on that portion of the Great Wheel marked by the "Sunset Strip," on the map at the back of "Last Dancer." (Indeed, the main characters of Terminal Freedom, Bogie Freedom and Terminal Sue, are "guest stars" in "Sunset Strip.") **************** *** 12-15-94 *** **************** From: "j.c. duval" To: continuing-time@umich.edu, d.moran8@genie.geis.com Subject: Re: News Release... -------- I'm starting to sound like one of those trekkie geeks who check each episode for errors in continuity. I can't help myself. If Trent dies during the period between 2078 and 2080, How can he be alive during the War with the Sleem wich takes place in the next century according to the timeline? (as is clearly stated on p. 15 of TLR). **************** *** 12-15-94 *** **************** From: marcus eubanks To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Files to be made available. -------- On Thu, 15 Dec 1994 d.moran8@genie.geis.com wrote: > The following has been sent (US Mail) to Peter Durrell (DURRELL@NETCOM.COM), > Sean Eric Fagan (SEF@KITHRUP.COM), and Solomon Foster > (COLOMON@EECS.UMICH.EDU). They've all agreed to take steps to make these > files available via anonymous FTP: Any estimates as to when we might expect to be able to access these? Regards, Marcus Eubanks (n3etr) Temple Med '96 Philadelphia, PA USA "A person with an inconvenient value-system." **************** *** 12-15-94 *** **************** From: durrell@netcom.com (bryant durrell) To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Files to be made available. -------- d.moran8@genie.geis.com writes: > The following has been sent (US Mail) to Peter Durrell (DURRELL@NETCOM.COM), > Sean Eric Fagan (SEF@KITHRUP.COM), and Solomon Foster > (COLOMON@EECS.UMICH.EDU). They've all agreed to take steps to make these > files available via anonymous FTP: Fer the record -- Bryant Durrell. -- Bryant Durrell durrell@netcom.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "There is a difference between art and life and that difference is readability." -- Marian Engel **************** *** 12-16-94 *** **************** From: simon tak lam tong To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Files to be made available. -------- >The following has been sent (US Mail) to Peter Durrell >(DURRELL@NETCOM.COM), Sean Eric Fagan (SEF@KITHRUP.COM), and Solomon >Foster (COLOMON@EECS.UMICH.EDU). They've all agreed to take steps to >make these files available via anonymous FTP: [Name of files deleted] Any chance of making this available before Christmas, please ? I can just see myself sitting on the beach with the _The Long Run_ screenplay in one hand and a glass of cold lemon tea in the other, bliss ! **************** *** 12-16-94 *** **************** From: sean eric fagan To: tong@numbat.cs.rmit.edu.au, continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Files to be made available. -------- > Any chance of making this available before Christmas, please ? It depends on when we get the disks. Since they were mailed from New York, and I'm in California, I expect I'll get them last. I don't know where Peter is; he may be out here as well, in which case Solomon should get it first. Remember that the Christmas season is the busiest season for the Post Office, and things get slow. But the files will be up for anon. ftp within an hour of my getting them. Sean. **************** *** 12-17-94 *** **************** From: sean eric fagan To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Hm... something interesting -------- DKM wrote, in his update press release: 3. In my last news release, about two years ago, I told people that there would be two more Trent novels; there won't be. I'm killing him in "Players: The AI War," for a lot of good reasons -- his death is, well, interesting. Even Trent fans should not be much outraged by it, I hope. and "Players: The AI War"............2078 to 2080 o Trent the Uncatchable and the Temple of 'toons o The Big Boost o Live Fast and Never Die o The Lay of the Rose o The AI War and VOLUME THREE: THE WAR WITH THE SLEEM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "A Song as Yet Unsung".....................2111 to 2119 "A Tale as Yet Untold".....................2121 to 2139 "Legend"...................................2145 to 2149 But in tLD, on page 15 of the paperback edition, we have: I never _ever_ talk like that. -- Trent the Uncatchable, in conversation with the historian Corazon de Nostri, during the Warm with the Sleem. How did Trent do an interview at least 30 years after he died? Sean. **************** *** 12-18-94 *** **************** From: colomon To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Files to be made available. -------- > Any chance of making this available before Christmas, please ? We're hoping to get them on-line Tuesday --- but we have to get the disk in the mail first. >Since they were mailed from New York, and I'm in California, I expect >I'll get them last. I don't know where Peter is; he may be out here as >well, in which case Solomon should get it first. That would make sense, but one must factor in the St. Clair post office. Past delivery dates suggest that they might pass the disk around the office so everyone gets a chance to read it before me. (Last summer, I kept on getting different issues of magazines within a day or two. Magazines that were published one monthly and one bi-weekly. Magazines that other people I know got on a nice, even schedule. And that wasn't during holiday rush.) If I do get it before them, I'll pass on copies to Sean and Bryant ASAP, in case they can get the FTP sites set up faster than me. -Sol **************** *** 12-18-94 *** **************** From: colomon To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Hm... something interesting -------- >How did Trent do an interview at least 30 years after he died? The hardware dies, and the software lives on? -Sol **************** *** 12-18-94 *** **************** From: "j.c. duval" To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Something interesting...really;). -------- Oops. I forgot to bounce this. Actually the problem is that damn Genie mailer does not seem to allow DKM to Carbon-copy his msgs to the list. On Thu, 15 Dec 1994 d.moran8@genie.geis.com wrote: > duvaljc@tornade.ere.umontreal.ca writes: > > >If Trent dies` > >during the period between 2078 and 2080, How can he be alive during the > >War with the Sleem wich takes place in the next century according to the > >timeline? (as is clearly stated on p. 15 of TLR). > >Yep. Page 15 has been pointed out to me (though I was well aware of it >at the time I decided that Trent's "death" was going to be a *real* >death...) > >I'm having to back-fill on that one a bit, since, essentially, I changed >my mind since writing that line. Trent was once a major character in the >"War Against the Sleem" trilogy; now he does not appear in it. But >there's plenty of room *to* backfill. Corazon de Nostri appears in "AI >War," in one bit of setup. The line she attributes to Trent during the >War with the Sleem comes during an alleged conversation no one else >(including the reader) ever gets to see. > >In short, she claims to have seen Elvis. This lets me keep my precious >ambiguity on this subject. **************** *** 12-18-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Something interesting...really -------- duvaljc@tornade.ere.umontreal.ca said: >Oops. I forgot to bounce this. Actually the problem is that damn Genie >mailer does not seem to allow DKM to Carbon-copy his msgs to the list. That's not exactly the case, but close; I wasn't seeing the headers indicating whether my mail was coming to me directly, or through the mailing list. That's now been fixed; and I *can* CC the list when replying to something that came from the list. This should make things a little easier. **************** *** 12-18-94 *** **************** From: david silberstein To: "d. k. moran list" Subject: Re: Something interesting...really;). -------- Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn Damn Damn. I wrote the following bit after reading the questions regarding the line in TLR and DKMs timeline, but before reading DKM's reply. But then I decided, what the hell, I'll post it anyway. There will be others who think along the same lines I do. This is for them. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Others have pointed out the the contradiction involved in having Trent "killed off" in the AI wars and the quote in TLR. I note that DKM himself is kinda quiet on the issue - not surprising, since anything the author says on his own work is stuff that will come back to haunt him some day as people come crying "continuity!" at him. And besides, he does want to preserve the aura of mystery around Trent. We still don't know whether he really walked through a wall.... So here, from someone who has no connection to DKM's work besides having read them and loved them, is some IDLE SPECULATION. No more. First, note that DKM said that Trent's death would be "interesting". This can can be interpreted in many different ways.... So here's one scenario: Trent to himself: Self, I'm tired of having a huge price on my head and having to keep my eyes open all the time. People I don't even know keep trying to kill me, and I'm sick of it. Self: So whatcha gonna do? Trent: I'm going to let them kill me. I'm going to lead them on a very long chase, which will end with them cornering me, and they're going to shoot me very dead. I might even leave them a nice corpse to dissect so that they know it's me. Self: . But I don't wanna die!! Trent: Me neither. So we won't. It's going to be getting the corpse without killing anyone which will be tricky..... Now, it's already been mentioned that Trent might take the option of becoming an AI. Here's a couple more: (1) Relatavistic time travel - Trent shoots off at .95% of c, and either loops around in a long journey which takes him 31 years (real time) while only aging him a small fraction of that time, or he shoots off into space, travels approx 31 light years - and is caught by some of the first craft that can transcend the light barrier (travel the spacelace tunnels). (2) (I like this one better because it implies lots more control on Trent's part): Stasis bubble. Trent: Look, Self, you know I have to do it. Vance will come right after me if I pop up and continue with my usual shtick. I just can't seem to keep out of trouble... Self: But boss, you'll be *gone* for _hundreds_ of _billions_ of _seconds_- I'll be so damn bored.... Trent: Heck, even you can go to sleep for a while... just set up an auto news storage process, and audit the lot every once in a while. But you better not wake me unless something *really* interesting happens - like the Johnny Rebs getting their act together and beating the Unification, or Vance announcing that he's going to retire and become a Buddhist. Or something like that. Self: Ok, boss... nighty night... -31 years later (from the avatar's point of view), or the next instant, (from Trent's point of view)- Self: Boss! You gotta wake up! We're being invaded by bug-eyed monsters! Trent: Dammit Self, if you're yanking my chain, I'll.... But Trent already knew that his avatar was serious. He skipped briefly through thirty-one years of news broadcasts, but paid more attention to the truly alarmed (and alarming) messages that were currently being transmitted. Trent: Good grief. Bug-eyed monsters. Who'da thunk it.... The least likely idea that I could come up with was the religous: the Church of His Return, after 31 years to get organized, has created an office "The High Thief", and the name of the holder of this office is always changed to "Trent the Uncatchable" (Hmm. Perhaps combined with the AI concept. Instead of a mitre, the High Thief gets an inskin which contains Trent's avatar...). Oh yeah, and there's one more... As Mohammed Vance and Trent the Uncatchable tumble off of Reichenbach Asteroid with no impulse packs.... Oops. Sorry. Wrong group. Wrong story. Wrong characters. Wrong genre. Wrong everything.... :-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Foo. As you have already read, DKM has effectively nuked all of these scenarios. Or has he? Wheels within wheels within wheels. Hmmm.... --- David S **************** *** 12-18-94 *** **************** From: sean eric fagan To: dasbc@cunyvm.cuny.edu, continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Something interesting...really;). -------- >Foo. As you have already read, DKM has effectively nuked all of these >scenarios. >Or has he? Wheels within wheels within wheels. Hmmm.... Check out the last bit with Johnny-Johnny-who-is-Trent in tLD. He/it beams himself/itself off into a random direction... Now, if it weren't for the fact that I'm sure DKM already has something planned for that, it would make a good way for de Nostri to talk with "Trent," years after his death: the Image gets intercepted sometime, probably after the Revolution, and and becomes a replicant AI, named Trent. Anyway, baseless speculation ;). Sean. **************** *** 12-19-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Continuity -------- DASBC@CUNYVM.CYNY.EDU said: >Others have pointed out the the contradiction involved in having Trent >"killed off" in the AI wars and the quote in TLR. I note that DKM >himself is kinda quiet on the issue - not surprising, since anything >the author says on his own work is stuff that will come back to haunt >him some day as people come crying "continuity!" at him. And besides, I'm not going to address speculation, except to say that most of the speculation I've ever seen has been fairly far off. One of the difficulties in continuity is rooted in the nature of what I'm doing. The Continuing Time has not changed in any significant fashion, as far as the grand sweep of the storyline goes, since I was about 15. Titles of books have changed; names of (a very few) characters have changed. But very few new books have been added, and (I think) only one novel removed from the list. Trying to "color within the lines," to not break the vision of that fifteen year old boy, is occasionally difficult. One of the advantages of making up your stories as you go along -- the major reason no one has ever really done what I'm doing -- is that it requires, really, a barely sane (and hugely egotistic) devotion to the subject matter. I would probably write better more likely to win awards. So the way I look at it is that the "Tales of the Continuing Time" is *one* story ... that's taking my whole life to write. If an individual story is good, bad, or indifferent, the important thing is how So far I'm pleased. **************** *** 12-19-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Trent-as-AI... -------- SEF@KITHRUP.COM said: >Check out the last bit with Johnny-Johnny-who-is-Trent in tLD. He/it beams >himself/itself off into a random direction... Interesting speculation, and not really wrong -- but not right either. The following comes relatively early in "AI War" (in Temple of 'Toons, to be precise:) Orders of abstraction: The Crystal Wind of Earth's InfoNet had been too fast for humans to navigate within, unaided, for nearly four decades. And as the hardware got faster and the software smarter, the problem only grew worse. Increasingly clever approaches were used to address the problem -- Images were programmed to deal with most of the grunt work of navigating the Net; tracesets freed humans from keyboards and pointing devices and the need to speak aloud; the first real Players, the greatest of the webdancers, subjected themselves to surgery, had InfoNet links implanted within their skulls, "in-skin," to provide them with greater integration with their Images; and finally, in the year 2069, Tytan Labs had shipped the NN-II, an experimental nerve net designed to offload biological thought processes into the nerve net -- making its recipient smarter, able to think faster; Trent had had one installed in late '69. For ten years the biochip nerve net had been growing inside his skull, making ever deeper and more intimate connections with Trent's neural system. It would have killed him to remove it; but even so: Stopgap measures on the way to the Promised Land. The problem was that there was an absolute limit to the speed at which protein-based neurons could process information. Trent had solved the problem. For most of the last five years, Trent the Uncatchable had been a replicant AI. **************** *** 12-19-94 *** **************** From: "j.c. duval" To: continuing-time@umich.edu, d.moran8@genie.geis.com Subject: Re: Continuity -------- Hmm. 3rd person or 2nd person? Let's mix both;). > > I'm not going to address speculation, except to say that most of the > speculation I've ever seen has been fairly far off. This is something which I would typify as the Reverse Gordon R. Dickson syndrome. As some of you know (I hope), Mr. Dickson had planned a number of novels in order to flesh out his universe, a bit of of a reversed Continuing Time in which the past novels would come later. They never did. He decided to milk the Dorsai cow for as much as it was worth even though IMHO his most recent books really make no sens in his scheme of things. I for one would have no problems with DKM milking the Trent cow for as much as it's worth. There should be a balance between cow milking and sticking to one's creative guns as far as I'm concerned. However I do respect you for killing Trent this early in the series. Killing a character is a lot easier if he's part of an ensemble cast and not as fleshed out as some others. In Trent's case, HE, with Denice, is the ensemble cast;). Other writers have tried to do what you have done in a more limited way. Asimov tried and failed, Vance and Resnick have tried but always kept a looser structure. Most writers are simply not willing to bind themselves into this tight a structure. Asimov saw a patriarchal orderly society as a perfect Galactic Empire in the 50's but when he went back to it 30 some od years later, he went politically correct on us and turned the empire into some kind of hippie dream;). P.S: You never mention us poor canucks, what happened to us? and, I imagine it's been asked before,: why the bloody French? **************** *** 12-19-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Continuity -------- DUVALJC@TORNADE.ERE.UMONTREAL.CA said: >This is something which I would typify as the Reverse Gordon R. Dickson >syndrome. As some of you know (I hope), Mr. Dickson had planned a number of >novels in order to flesh out his universe, a bit of of a reversed >Continuing Time in which the past novels would come later. They never I've been taking notes for years for a Monster Essay (possibly an entire book) called "World Builders." In my current rough draft of this M.E./book, the table of contents looks like this: Poul Anderson: Traders and Empire Isaac Asimov: From R. Daneel Olivaw to Hari Seldon Marion Zimmer Bradley: Under the Bloody Sun Gordon R. Dickson: Dorsai Robert A. Heinlein: The Future History that Started it All Larry Niven: Known Space Takes Names and Kicks Ass World building is fascinating stuff; I've stolen from all the above at one time or another, in my own work. One of the criteria for being included in the "World Builders" M.E. was that the authors had to have had *more than one* storyline. This is why, for example, Frank Herbert isn't included; as interesting as the Dune material is, it was clearly a series. I was told recently that his early stories about the saboteur McKie (Whipping Star, the Dosadi Experiment) are allegedly a part of the same universe, in which case I might have to add Herbert to the M.E. >I for one would have no problems with DKM milking the Trent cow for as .. >In Trent's case, HE, with Denice, is the ensemble cast;). No ... Jimmy Ramirez, Reverend Andy, Mohammed Vance, Melissa du Bois, Callia Sierran, Jay and Michelle Altaloma, F.X. Chandler, Neil Corona, Douglass Ripper, Charles Eddore, Booker Jamethon, McGee, William Devane, Ring, Ralf the Wise and Powerful -- from the new novel, Serena Vance, Angel de Luz, Jason Alexai Lucas. And there are *at least* half a dozen major new characters showing up in "Crystal Wind," including Tarin Schuyler, Denice's dancer roommate, mentioned several times but never actually shown; and a spy named Linda Jameison, who is Daniel November's mother. I think you'll be surprised how well "Crystal Wind" works without Trent. >Other writers have tried to do what you have done in a more limited way. >Asimov tried and failed, Vance and Resnick have tried but always kept a >looser structure. Most writers are simply not willing to bind themselves With good reason. It's very restricting and you have to start *very* young and then hammer away for the rest of your life. Writers with talent won't limit themselves this way; writers without talent we needn't mention. >P.S: You never mention us poor canucks, what happened to us? A really nasty strain of viral pneumonia wiped you all out. >and, I imagine it's been asked before,: why the bloody French? Beats me. A 14-15 year old boy thought they were cool? I can't recall, really. **************** *** 12-19-94 *** **************** From: "j.c. duval" To: continuing-time@umich.edu, d.moran8@genie.geis.com Subject: Re: Continuity -------- >World building is fascinating stuff; I've stolen from all the above at >one time or another, in my own work. I read both McKie books a number of times and I would be hard pressed to find that link. Then again, I gagged after about half the 3rd Dune book. Add Vance and Resnick to that list;). I never saw that "known space kicks ass" mention and knowing Niven, he's probably say TANJ! at the first mention of profanity;). > I think you'll be surprised how well "Crystal Wind" works without Trent. Those mind-boggling teasers are killing us. First Trent goes replicant and now this. If Linda Jameison is mother to the November line, and as we all well know the November line is issued for the Castanaveras line, then who's the father? Trent? Doesn't the Named Storyteller mention at one point that she is his ancestor? > With good reason. It's very restricting and you have to start *very* young > and then hammer away for the rest of your life. Writers with talent won't > limit themselves this way; writers without talent we needn't mention. Don't be so hard on yourself;). The Encyclopedia of Science-Fiction says you have displayed "considerable energy, some humour" and "a copious ambition." > >P.S: You never mention us poor canucks, what happened to us? > A really nasty strain of viral pneumonia wiped you all out. Hey I'm french I wanted to be a PKF officer;). Seriously it seems likely in the light of recent World Events that a force similar to the PKK, or the Bova idea of a PKF, will see the light before the end of the century. **************** *** 12-19-94 *** **************** From: durrell@netcom.com (bryant durrell) To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: DKM Files -------- The DKM files are now available at: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/du/durrell/dkm Or, for the URL-challenged , ftp to ftp.netcom.com, and look in /pub/du/durrell/dkm. I will be working on HTMLizing them over Christmas break, and when I have that done I'll let everyone know. -- Bryant Durrell durrell@netcom.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't mock the insecure. **************** *** 12-19-94 *** **************** From: "steven miale" To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: DKM Files -------- Since netcom is a *very* busy FTP site and difficult to get into, I've mirrored the files: ftp://ftp.cs.indiana.edu/pub/smiale/dkm Share and enjoy... Steve **************** *** 12-19-94 *** **************** From: sean eric fagan To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Announcing a DKM WWW Page! -------- This is a preliminary version, so not very good yet; please send me contributions and changes. http://www.cygnus.com/~sef/dkm/index.html is a WWW page for DKM. It includes a little blurb about him, and the mailing list (and people can join the mailing list through this). It also has a pointer to the files that were sent out and announced on this mailing list. In a day or so, I'd like to post an announcement about this page to rec.art.sf.announce and rec.arts.sf.written. I want to wait a day to get feedback from y'all. Please look at it and send me comments. And, of course: THANK YOU DKM! Sean. **************** *** 12-19-94 *** **************** From: danthony@ksccary.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu, Subject: Re[2]: Continuity -------- DKM> ...and a spy named Linda Jameison, who is Daniel November's mother. DKM> DKM> I think you'll be surprised how well "Crystal Wind" works without DKM>Trent. JCDuV>Those mind-boggling teasers are killing us. First Trent goes replicant JCDuV>and now this. If Linda Jameison is mother to the November line, and JCDuV>as we all well know the November line is issued for the JCDuV>Castanaveras line, then who's the father? I'm pretty sure I recall from the books that Denice is the grandmother of Daniel. This would mean that Denice's son is the father of Daniel. From another letter: (JCDuV says: Even though TLD has a strong female protagonist, it remains a novel aimed at a largely male audience.) I *strongly* disagree. It may or may not be a novel *read* by a largely male audience, but I doubt it was *aimed* at a largely male audience. DKM says he first wrote for himself & his sister. This is only a 50% male audience :-). On the more serious side, what possible evidence do you have that TLD is "aimed" at men mostly? That's not at all how the book reads to me (a woman btw.) PS. Not everyone who reads a novel "identifies" with *Any* of the characters. AND I love John Varley's stuff too--esp. "The Phantom of Kansas :-)" **************** *** 12-19-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Sex targeting... -------- >(JCDuV says: > Even though TLD has a strong female protagonist, it remains a novel > aimed at a largely male audience.) DANTHONY@KSCCARY.COM said: >>I *strongly* disagree. It may or may not be a novel *read* by a largely >>male audience, but I doubt it was *aimed* at a largely male audience. DKM >>says he first wrote for himself & his sister. This is only a 50% I certainly never intended to aim TLD at either men or women. For what it's worth, my fan mail for "The Long Run" was overwhelmingly male -- and predominantly from teenagers, I suspect. For TLD, it's been about 50-50, and I suspect that the writers are a touch older, too. Given the predominance of young men among SF readers, that's an interesting statistic. I am an utterly selfish writer. I write stuff I want to read -- I re-read my own work with numbing regularity. I've probably read "Long Run" fifty times. Also I keep an eye out for anything that might really upset one of my sisters. "I don't *need* a conscience," Lan muttered. "*I* have a *sister*." Interestingly enough, there is *one* scene in the "Tales," so far, that I didn't write. The bit where Lan & Trent are sitting together in the rolligon, watching the PKF go by -- Jodi wrote that scene, first draft. And I've lifted heavily from her novels -- the Prophet Harry, the Devlins, Nicole Eris Lovely, etc. >>PS. Not everyone who reads a novel "identifies" with *Any* of the >>characters. AND I love John Varley's stuff too--esp. "The Phantom >>of Kansas :-)" And "Steel Beach." I very nearly had Trent show up as a woman in "Last Dancer;" it's the logical outgrowth of biosculpture, and is certainly something Mohammed Vance would *never* have guessed Trent would do. Major thing that stopped me was that it was very "Varley." (Might well have upset some of my male fans, too, I wouldn't have been surprised....) **************** *** 12-19-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: WWW Page... -------- Thanks to Sean, Bryant, and Sol (and Steve Miale, too) for having gone to the trouble of creating FTP sites and (in Sean's case) a WWW page for my stuff. It's much appreciated. **************** *** 12-19-94 *** **************** From: sean eric fagan To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: WWW Page... -------- >Thanks to Sean, Bryant, and Sol (and Steve Miale, too) for having gone to >the trouble of creating FTP sites and (in Sean's case) a WWW page for my >stuff. It's all enlightened self-interest. If more people read the tidbits, they'll be likely to buy your books, which will ensure that you will continue writing, which means we won't be cut dry ;). Also: I did NOT send out that message four times. I only sent it out once. I don't know what happened that caused it to go out multiple times; I'm a bit wary of sending this out, for that matter! Hopefully the same won't happen again... Sean. [I deleted three instances in the archives! -S] **************** *** 12-20-94 *** **************** From: colomon To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: WWW Page... -------- >>Thanks to Sean, Bryant, and Sol (and Steve Miale, too) for having gone to >>the trouble of creating FTP sites and (in Sean's case) a WWW page for my >>stuff. > >It's all enlightened self-interest. If more people read the tidbits, >they'll be likely to buy your books, which will ensure that you will >continue writing, which means we won't be cut dry ;). What Sean said. I've been reading the stuff. Wow. I suspect the mailing list is going to have a lot of discussion over the next year or so. In other words, there's enough to talk about here to carry us over to _The AI War_'s release. -Sol **************** *** 12-20-94 *** **************** From: "patrick g. bridges" To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Lord November -------- Well, I just finished the first two chapters of "Lord November". I have to agree, we'll have lots to talk about until this summer, when "AI War" comes out... "Lord November" gives some hints of the nasty things that happens - the Glass Deserts of California? Looks like the PKF pulls out all the stops on this one... I can't wait... Thanks, DKM. You made my semester. :-) **************** *** 12-20-94 *** **************** From: david silberstein To: "d. k. moran list" Subject: DKM Files -------- Here's some thoughts about the files avaialable for ftp and the web page: - Would there be any problem in making the chapter excerpt from _The AI War_ available at both these sites? I thought it was really great, and tAIW will be the first new DKM book out... - A minor quibble: I think the bibliography should be a seperate file, and the home page should just be about DKM's biographical data. - The bibliography should have ISBN numbers, IASFM should be expanded out to Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine (or at least, there should be an explanation of what it means - some of the people reading it may not be familiar with US SF magazines). Also, the bibliography should be made available at the ftp sites as well. - Collaborators: perhaps some space could be devoted to info on Jodi Moran and Gladys Prebehalla (whatever *did* become of Gladys, Dan?) - Obsolete stuff: would there be any point to making available the timeline that DKM provided back in 1992 (just so that people can see how his vision has changed?)? - Continuing time archives - (Hey Sol - I'd like to see what came before I joined the list in December 1993 (that's a personal request to the list moderator)). Perhaps selected stuff might be made available as seperate files - the gaming info, the more elaborate speculation on the mechanics of walking through walls, the stuff pointing out the more obscure references, etc, etc - Graphics? Perhaps someone might scan in a good photo of DKM for the home page? Or how about the art in the various SF magazines? Are the covers of the books worth scanning? - That's all for now - can anyone think of anything else? --- David S **************** *** 12-20-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: DKM Files -------- LONG POST WARNING: DASBC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU said: >>- Would there be any problem in making the chapter excerpt from >> _The AI War_ available at both these sites? I have no objection. >>- Collaborators: perhaps some space could be devoted to >> info on Jodi Moran and Gladys Prebehalla (whatever *did* >> become of Gladys, Dan?) Gladys was a woman of about my mother's age (her children were all roughly my age), in a writing class I took when I was about 20. She came to me with an idea for a story about an old woman -- "Maggie Archer" -- who was being forced to have a computer in her house; she didn't know where to go with it. I was reading "The Three Musketeers" at the time. The SF storyline is mostly mine; the emotional resonance was mostly hers. We wrote the first draft together; she wrote Maggie, and I wrote D'Artagnan. I did two more drafts essentially on my own, which she then corrected. Where she is today I do not know. Our relationship was more intimate (and I do not mean physically) than was perhaps stable for a 21-year old and a woman in her mid-to-late 40s. The relationship degenerated and finally died. I don't want to be more specific than that; it would be disrespectful and unfair to a woman I remember fondly. Jodi Moran, on the other hand -- Jodi Anne Moran is my younger sister, born March 9, 1964. (Trent's birthday...) She is the author of one novel that is currently looking for a home; "Devlin's Razor." DR concerns the adventures of the Prophet Harry, who is frequently referred to in my novels -- I like to think of her novels as belonging to the Continuing Time, but this is purely my own conceit. If this conceit ever interfered with Jodi's storytelling, she would ruthlessly ignore it ... She is a better natural writer than I am. I plot better than she does, but that's a result of years of study; I am certainly a better editor. But she has a gift for observation, for language, that supercedes mine. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Opening scene of her novel "Delin's Razor:" THE PACIFIC OCEAN vomits up Venice Beach, a time warp psycho ward from hell. At the edge of the sand, artists, merchants and fortune tellers ply their trades with threatening urgency. Golden skinned musclemen, wearing little more than leather belts, pump iron and sweat. Women, wearing even less, watch them. Wild-eyed dopers crouch in the sand and dealers loiter in whatever shade they can find. Small children build sand castles and blond surfers with razor blades taped to the points of their boards kick the castles down. Heat waves shimmer up off the water and a thousand sun worshipecs invite skin cancer into their lives. Tourists wander uncertainly, looking for a bargain, or maybe a cop. The peculiar, the bizarre and the grotesque all saunter merrily along, hoping to catch the eye of a wealthy producer, just dying for their type, or a wealthier pervert, dying for practically anything. A man wearing a turban and playing a guitar roller-skates to nirvana. Harry Devlin killed his beer and dropped the empty bottle back into the ice chest. The sun reached down, dragging the moisture from his body; the dry air absorbed it almost immediately. People thought of Los Angeles as a tropical city, a paradise of beaches and palm trees. In fact, it was a desert, an arid, wasted expanse of land made green by stolen water and imported gardeners. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Devlin's Razor" has yet to find a publisher, which does not surprise me, but does sadden me. It's a very hard to categorize work; it does not immediately remind me of anyone else (except, a little, John Irving.) This is exactly the sort of thing publishers hate. "What is this thing?" one reader who worked in publishing asked me. "A murder mystery? Magic realism? A thriller about drug running?" I am not making that quote up; I wish I were. Jodi and I have completed a novel called "Terminal Freedom" that's currently at Ace SF. If Ace passes on it, we're going to go ahead and self-publish it in a signed, limited edition; if *that* does well, we'll go ahead and self- publish a paperback edition. I've always wanted to own and run my own publishing company; can you say "control freak"? >>- Obsolete stuff: would there be any point to making available >> the timeline that DKM provided back in 1992 (just so that >> people can see how his vision has changed?)? No objection, but I'm skeptical that it's useful. >>the stuff pointing out the more obscure references, etc, etc "Obscure references" ... Lessee. This is off the top of my head. o The "SpaceFarer's Collective" -- internal documents used by SpaceFarers refer to it as the "SF Collective." All SpaceFarer ships are the names of characters from other SF novels; but you knew that. o "Charles Eddore" -- Gharlane of Eddore, from E.E. "Doc" Smith's Lensman novels... o "Beth Davenport," Trent's lawyer in "Long Run." Beth Davenport was James Rockford's lawyer in "The Rockford Files." o "The Dauntless," name of the first starship to leave Sol System; also name of Kimball Kinnison's spaceship in the Lensman novels.... o Use of "slithy" as a swear word. A semi-major alien race in the later novels are the !tove! ... the exclamation points stand for a glottal click humans have difficulty with. In one of the later books one character will start to swear at a !tove! -- "You slithy--" and get cut off. (Isn't this an awful lot of effort to go to for one lousy joke? We are Continuing Time Enterprises, Inc., are *committed* to quality control....) o 113102-KMET ... Ralf the Wise and Powerful's phone number. "KMET" was one of the all-time great rock and roll radio stations; its corporate pig owners turned it into a station playing Yanni & such about four or five years ago. o "Angel de Luz," who appears in "The AI War," is based on an old girlfriend, Angel Greenwood. Angel & I parted on good terms; I have her permission to do this character. Angel was one of the two female motorcycle couriers in the history of the city of L.A. o "Terry Shawmac." Terry Shawmac is, of course, Hunter S. Thompson with the serial numbers rubbed off, and a little Harlan Ellison/David Gerrold thrown in. o "Jodi Jodi," "Doctor Death," are both alter egoes for my sister Jodi. o Linda Jameison, Daniel November's mother, has my mother's birthday; James Ripper, Daniel November's father, has my father's birthday; Trent has Jodi's birthday; Daniel November has my birthday; and October 27, my youngest sister Kathy's birthday, is a date of considerable historical importance in the "Tales." The planet November is discovered on this date; Daniel November returns to November to stay on that date; and during "Lord November: The Man-Spacething War," something Very Important happens on that date. o The frequent references to "Je Suis Le Fleuve" ... "Je Suis Le Fleuve" is a fictional painting; it comes from the novel "The Perfect Thief," written by Ronald J. Bass. Bass went on to win an Oscar for "Rain Man," and to write such movies as "Gardens of Stone," "Black Widow," and several others. o This isn't really an obscure reference, but it's interesting. In Last Dancer, Denice says: It's important to remember. But it's more important to forgive. Terry Shawmac's response is: Should everything be forgiven? Has no one ever done something to you that was such a betrayal, did such violence to your trust, that you could not forgive them? This is almost verbatim a comment I made to Dorothy Fontana one night; we were talking about Gene Roddenberry. Shawmac's response is hers. I ran home and typed it up. A lot of writing is stealing from the right sources.... o 'Immigrant and Visitor's Guide to Survival,' by M. Garcia. This is a book referred to in Long Run -- M. Garcia is of course Manuel O'Kelly Garcia, the hero of "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress." o "Moreau Island," mentioned in Long Run, is real obvious; named after Jules Moreau, one of the founders of the Unification. Later on we find out that Jules Moreau has a PhD.... o "Officer Stout," the tall thin loonie in Long Run; Amy Stout was my first editor at Bantam. That's it, off the top of my head. I've probably missed a dozen others. **************** *** 12-20-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Quality Control -------- In my last post, I spewed: >>cut off. (Isn't this an awful lot of effort to go to for one lousy >>joke? We are Continuing Time Enterprises, Inc., are *committed* to >>quality control....) That's "We *at* Continuing Time Enterprises," of course....apparently QC slipped a bit on that message. **************** *** 12-20-94 *** **************** From: sean eric fagan To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: WWW page update -------- 1. It's also accessible as http://www.cygnus.com/dkm -- this is how I'll announce it to the net. 2. I've updated it bit more, and re-organized it a bit. Contributions are welcome! 3. I've added links from the Bibliography to reviews. So far, I've just written reviews of tAB and EE -- if you've got your own reviews, send 'em to me, and I'll stick them in there as well. so far, there have been about 60 references to it. I'll start keeping more accurate track after I post the announcement later today or tomorrow to rec.arts.sf.announce. Sean. **************** *** 12-21-94 *** **************** From: sean eric fagan To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Announcement of Web page posted to the net -------- Here's what was posted. I hope we get lots of interest ;). From: sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan) Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.announce,rec.arts.sf.written Subject: Daniel Keys Moran Web page and archive site Date: 21 Dec 1994 17:21:20 -0500 Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <199412210358.TAA21529@kithrup.com> I have created a Web page for Daniel Keys Moran, author of (most recently) _The Last Dancer_. It is at http://www.cygnus.com/dkm/index.html. There are also some files available at ftp.cygnus.com:~ftp/pub/dkm; the Web page has detailed descriptions of these files. (Among other things, there is a screenplay based on one of his novels; the first chapters from two of his upcoming books; the original, unedited afterwords for several of his books; a timeline for his series; and a couple of previously-published short stories.) Moran's first book was _The Armageddon Blues_; it was followed up with _Emerald Eyes_, _The Long Run_, _The Ring_, and _The Last Dancer_; Bantam should be publishing _The A.I. War_ (or _Players: The A.I. War_) hopefully sometime in '95 (Locus gives the date as August '95). He has also had several short stories published; one of them, "Realtiem," was the cover story of the May 1985 IASFM. There is a mailing list for discussing Moran's works, continuing-time@umich.edu; send mail to continuing-time-request@umich.edu to join. Recently, the author himself has joined discussions on the list, which certainly makes it more enjoyable! Unfortunately, all of his books except for _The Last Dancer_ are currently out of print; Moran says that Bantam will republish _Emerald Eyes_ and _The Long Run_ when _The A.I. War_ comes out. The files in the archive have been made available with Moran's consent. He retains copyright, and has some restrictions (you can read them, and email them around if you wish, but don't print them, and don't sell them; read the files for the exact requirements). This is a wonderful thing for him to do, so please don't abuse it! (I'd like to see this continue, in the future. "Babylon 5" fans have certainly benefitted from having JMS participate in the discussions, and give out little tidbits, and the continuing-time mailing list has done the same of late.) Enjoy! **************** *** 12-21-94 *** **************** From: durrell@netcom.com (bryant durrell) To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Announcement of Web page posted to the net -------- Sean Eric Fagan writes: > Here's what was posted. I hope we get lots of interest ;). That would be "I", Sean, since you forgot to mention the other ftp archives. -- Bryant Durrell durrell@netcom.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ LUMINARY, n. One who throws light upon a subject; as an editor by not writing about it. -- Ambrose Bierce **************** *** 12-23-94 *** **************** From: sean eric fagan To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: DKM Web page statistics -------- Since I announced the DKM Web page, 56 unique sites have accessed it. (I hope to have some scripts to generate more interesting and useful statistics later.) I haven't seen any new mail about it, though :(. Sean. **************** *** 12-23-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Merry Christmas. -------- Heading off for my Christmas; won't be answering mail for the next week or so. Happy Holidays to everyone! **************** *** 12-24-94 *** **************** From: "john r. snead" To: continuing-time@umich.edu, d.moran8@genie.geis.com Subject: Re: Merry Christmas. -------- Happy Holidays to everyone on this list. Thanks to the wonderfully gracious Mr. Moran we now all have a wonderful present. The Face.asc file is incredibly useful, now, at -long- last I truly understand about the Continuing Time! Blessings and Joy to all -Heron jsnead@netcom.com **************** *** 12-29-94 *** **************** From: sean eric fagan To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Archive access stats -------- This is in two parts: ftpd first, httpd (WWW) second. This is not yet an automated process, although I hope to make it such soon. (Unfortunately, I've been sick pretty much the entire last week.) The statistics are generated *only* from the DKM accesses, both ftpd and httpd. For the entire statistics, the DKM archives are the most frequently-accessed stuff at ftp.cygnus.com / www.cygnus.com, and come out in the top of the lists in every category except size (those gcc distributions are pretty large ;)). (These logs are for informational purposes only. If anyone is upset that their accesses were monitored, I'm sorry; the main purpose of the archive site *is* for Cygnus to help their current and prospective customers. For all of this stuff, however, nothing is done other than log it, and use it to count things in the weekly logs.) FTPD ---- Total number of accesses to the top-level homepage : 0 Top 30 sites to access the server: 29 netcom.com 2 washington.edu 1 rmit.EDU.AU 8 ozemail.com.au 2 armory.com 1 control.com 5 nmt.edu 2 temple.edu 1 mcs.com 4 demon.co.uk 1 FortNet.org 1 ziff.com 4 halcyon.com 1 Bio-BB4.Stanford.EDU 1 cray.com 3 skylight.internet-eireann.ie 1 csn.org 1 std.com 3 gwu.edu 1 primenet.com Top 30 network top-level domains that have accessed us: 9 com 2 org 1 au 1 EDU 4 edu 1 ie 1 uk 1 AU Total number of items successfully downloaded from the server: 72 Total number of things which people *couldn't* download from the server: 0 HTTPD ----- Amount of data the Web sent over the wire: 4,230,593 bytes Not counting gif ps xbm au mpg jpg files : 4,230,593 bytes Total number of connections that timed out: 0 Total number of times httpd couldn't get the port number: 0 " " " " had to kill a CGI process: 0 " " " " caught a signal: 0 " " " " had a successful restart: 0 Top 100 pages downloaded from the server: 14 /pub/dkm/aiwar.asc 12 /pub/dkm/realtime.asc 9 /pub/dkm/given.asc 8 /pub/dkm/lordnov.asc 5 /pub/dkm/readme.1st 5 /pub/dkm/longrun.asc 5 /pub/dkm/conttime.94 4 /pub/dkm/corrspo.asc 4 /pub/dkm/afterwrd.asc 3 /pub/dkm/face.asc 3 /pub/dkm/badnews.asc Total number of accesses to the top-level homepage : 0 Top 20 sites to access the server: number name 8 netcom.com 4 ozemail.com.au 2 gwu.edu 1 umich.edu 5 std.com 3 washington.edu 2 cray.com 1 ucdavis.edu 5 demon.co.uk 3 stanford.edu 2 control.com 1 rmit.edu.au 4 ziff.com 2 nmt.edu 2 armory.com 1 nec.co.jp 4 primenet.com 2 montana.edu 2 137.197.10.0 1 ncr.com Total number of items successfully downloaded from the server: 53 Total number of things which people *couldn't* download from the server: 0 ( due to permission denied errors or people requesting files which don't exist ) Total number of bytes sent over the wire: 170375 Total number of bytes " " " ", not counting gif ps xbm au mpg jpg files: 159136 Top 100 pages downloaded from the server: 21 /dkm/index.html 14 /~sef/dkm/reviews.html 11 /~sef/dkm/archive.html 6 /~sef/dkm/index.html 1 /dkm/ **************** *** 12-30-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Looking at the List, Part One. -------- Sol & the list: Sol sent me a disk with the last couple years of stuff from the list on it. Fascinating stuff. What you folks are doing reconstructing the Continuing Time, from the books, is very nearly the same process I go through when I make it up and put it into the books. I said a few weeks ago that most of the speculation I'd seen was pretty far off; but I hadn't seen the archives prior to that. Some of the spec there is ... interesting. Some comments on all of it: ~~~~~~~~~~ Sol writes: >ps On the other hand, Melissa du Bois is a great character. Hopefully >she'll get more time again in future books --- maybe even her own book? >(I count three books pre-Sleem war that we haven't learned anything >about yet.) Melissa's a major character in "AI War" and "Crystal Wind." Crystal Wind will be interesting in a couple of ways; as presently outlined (it could change slightly) a half dozen of the major players (and a *lot* of the minor ones) are women. Melissa's one of them, as are Denice and Callia Sierran. Probably the only two male characters in the top 7 or 8 are Mohammed Vance and a fellow named Jason Alexai Lucas, who you first meet in "AI War." ~~~~~~~~~~ >Sol writes: >>My big question from the Last Dancer is exactly what happens when >>"Johnny Johnny" is trying to get back to Trent. We know JJ doesn't He dies. That particular copy of Trent dies. On the subject of general "Last Dancer" criticism: ~~~~~~~~~~ >Josh Kaderlan writes: >>Was anyone else bored by Dvan's Tale? I enjoyed it at times, but at >>others I was just begging for DKM to GET ON WITH IT. Sol responds: >I've seen a couple of people say this, but must say that I loved it. My editor didn't like this section particularly; virtually everyone has said that it moved too slowly, even the people who liked it. I suspect they're right. One of the things I did with it was pace it to match the attitudes and personalities of its (very long-lived) characters. I think this was back and looked at Heinlein and Niven's Very Old characters, after I got done, and was struck by their handling. Their characters don't really act like old people -- not even like healthy, vigorous old people. I'm skeptical that people in a society where aging was nearly conquered would behave this way in reality; but I'm forced to conclude that it makes for better storytelling. If I had "Dvan's Story" to do over again, I'd have sped it up a lot. ~~~~~~~~~~ Sol again: >Which brings up a question of mine: Why is Denice the "Last Dancer"? >It seems reasonable to assume any of her descendents could also become >Dancers, yet no one we've seen mentioned from the future is one. >(Lots of nightfaces, though --- Camber, Ola Blue, Name Storyteller.) The book title principally refers to Sedon; but Denice, at the time the story is set, is the last surviving Dancer in the Continuing Time. And if you think this means Something Drastic happened back on The World, you're right. What happens to the Dancers? Does Denice pass the discipline on? No comment. ~~~~~~~~~~ Sol says: >Actually, my assumption from this is that Camber will be the "hero" >somewhere down the line. There will be a point where "we are supposed >to support" him. (Note that Camber definitely sees himself as the hero, >while Name Storyteller seems more neutral; of course, that is a good >role for a storyteller.) This doesn't mean he will always be the hero, >or is one now. Josh Kaderlain says: >I also didn't have the visceral dislike throughout the book for >Gi'Suei'Obodi'Sedon as I did for the villains in both tLR and EE. Just >my .11 francs. Sean says: >But, no, Obodi wasn't really a villain. In fact, I might be so bold as >to say that there were *no* villains in _The Last Dancer_: Quite intentionally. Of all the writing I've done to date, not counting "The Ring," about the only thing I'm really embarrassed about is Jerrill Carson. He's *such* a Vicious Nasty Bad Guy. In the real world, yes, such people exist; but they make for very monochromatic storytelling. One of my favorite scenes in "Last Dancer" (someone in the list also said this) is the "Why We Fight" lectures by Casllia and Vance, in counterpoint. Two sets of enemies who believe they're fighting for Just, but mutually contradictory goals, is *much* better storytelling. Camber *is* the "hero." So's the Storyteller. They're opposite halves of the same coin. Sean Eric Fagan responds to someone else: >>I really want to know more about this. How is the "Walks-Far Empire" >>connected to the Walks-Far character in AB? >Oh, the Walks-Far tribe in that universe probably formed an empire. Yep. ~~~~~~~~~~ Sean responding again: >>My impression/guess had been that the Nameless One was Camber in a >>latter stage of his life; you seem to be suggesting that his name is >>Camber, but he has no Name? >No. His name is Camber Tremodian, and his Name is an inarticulate >scream of rage and pain. He is a very important figure in the >Continuing Time (the fact that he is one of the Zaradin gods was one >of the first clues :)), and there are four books devoted to him. Two >of the chapters in the first book have interesting titles: "The Darkness >Has a Name," and "The Hunted Man." So... something really *bad* happens to >Camber when he's young, and that's probably how he gets his Name. If you were going to *improve* the *physical structure* of the universe, how would you go about it? One of the things that's wrong with the universe we live in is that virtue doesn't get rewarded, and evil doesn't get punished. I think it's Goedel's theorem that says that no representational system, even mathematics, can ever be self-consistent to the degree that you can't say mutually contradictory things in that language. Therefore all representational systems are flawed; the map does not hold. Robert says something very like this to Denice in "TLD" and this is perhaps *the* major underlying theme of the Continuing Time stories -- see the title of "Volume Seven" of the Tales. There is a Direct Sequel to the "Tales;" it's "The Collapse of the Levels." It deals directly with this stuff. ~~~~~~~~~~ Sol says: >My favorite (at the moment) is probably the Last Dancer. I've always >thought that the Long Run was kind of a lightweight book next to Emerald >Eyes, but with more polish; Last Dancer combines the polish with the >depth of Emerald Eyes. My final take on all that is that I think "Last Dancer" is significantly better written than "Long Run," but TLR is a more successful book. I tried to do a lot more in Last Dancer, but not all of it worked; Long Run is less ambitious but more successful at what it does try to do. (Which was to be a page-turner, principally.) ~~~~~~~~~~ Dark Phoenix asked: >Are _The Ring_ and _The Armageddon Blues_ part of the Continuing Time? (I >haven't read them yet.) I don't remember seeing them in DKM's posted >chronology. "The Armageddon Blues" is set on the Great Wheel. Blurb in "Last Dancer" to the contrary, it is not and has never been part of the "Tales." Someone over there got confused. "The Ring" is a botched mess that we pretend didn't happen. ~~~~~~~~~~ Mike Rosenberg said: >i think bantam is doing dkm (and themselves) a diservice >by not bringing his other books back into print, now that >TLD is out. >my other advice (to dkm) is to find a new publisher. Could happen. I heard yesterday that Bantam's current negotiating is that they're going to ask for electronic rights on all new contracts; while offering no more for them. I'm *this close* to starting my own publishing company. ~~~~~~~~~~ John Bykowski says: >I also think that Moran should cut down on the song quotes. Either he's >not a good lyricist, or Kutura's not all she's cracked up to be. The >songs seem so simplistic and juvenile. There are no song quotes in "AI War." At least none of mine. I get strongreactions to that stuff; some people love them; more appear to hate them. In any event I've come to the general conclusion that they're probably best left out. In some cases, though, I've had relatively little choice. I used a pair of quotes from Don Henley in "Last Dancer;" his publisher subsequently refused to let me use them. So I wrote up some lyrics and put them in place. The lyric: Well Elvis sanctified me I tell you Elvis saved my soul He flew to me through time and space And we shared a jelly roll was originally: Well, I was flying back from Lubbock I was Jesus on the plane Or maybe it was Elvis -- You know they kind of look the same from Henley's "If Dirt Were Dollars," on "End of the Innocence." Bykowski continues: >Also - a mere 80 or so years into the future, and DKM thinks no one will >remember what an electric guitar looks like, and doesn't know who the >Beatles are? C'mon. It's more likely that they would know the songs and >have to be reminded of the ban, but no knowledge? We're still whistling >Greensleeves even though we've forgotten the writer. I'm sure that's >mainly due to the lack of recorded media at the time. I do think it's *possible;* I wouldn't go so far as to call it likely, bwe are dealing with fiction, after all. I'll be amazed if 2080 looks anything like "AI War." But people don't appreciate the vast changes that can take place in a culture in eighty years -- and the *next* eighty years are going to hold more change than the prior 200. ~~~~~~~~~~ brian wells said: >The Long Run has earned itself a place in my patented Brownian Motion Top >Ten List. (That's my list of general faves, the members of which are often >known to flip rankings but rarely actually leave the list. It's dominated >by three authors, all three the best yarn-spinners I have ever read, bar >none. Zelazny [I tend to count Amber as two LARGE novels], Brust, and Moran >for the curious) Every time I go back and re-read the durn thing it gets >harder and harder to put down, and it is one of those books I keep finding >obscure (and not-nearly-as-obscure) references to present culture. Only >Zelazny and Brust are able to do that to the same degree, and it blows me >away. Now *that's* a compliment. Zelazny is the author of what's most likely the best single SF novel ever written, "Lord of Light." The "Vatsayama" in Long Run & AI War is a tribute to Zelazny; I wandered around BBSs for years with the pseudonym "Fat Sam." As for Brust, he's not my favorite author but he's way up there.... >"PeaceKeeper: How to Kill... well, Anyone You Just Plain Don't Like" by >M. Vance That has possibilities. ~~~~~~~~~~ Rebecca Crowley said: >Dunno about Serathin. You do know Seraphim are a type of >angel (class? level?) in a lot of xtian metaphysical systems? >(Others which spring to mine, scattered across denominations: >thrones, cherubim, archangels. . .) There's no connection -- though there are real "seraphim" in the indirect sequel to "The Armageddon Blues." That's "Trinity: The Revolt of the Angels." **************** *** 12-30-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Comments about List, Part Two. -------- ~~~~~~~~~~ Sean said: >One of the few serious complaints I have about DKM, actually. Despite >normally doing a fair amount of research about stuff he uses, he has >Denice claim that Wicca is a younger religion than christianity. Sorry. You're wrong about this one. Earth magic, or paganism, or worship of the Goddess, have been around for a *long* time. But Wicca in its current incarnation, which I know a good bit about, is a relatively young religion; it dates to early in this century. Several witches read that bit and none of them took offense. Paganism *is* older than Judaism (which is about 4,000 years old, if I remember Ben Johnson's "History of the Jews," not 6,000.) But Paganism and Wicca are not (exactly) the same thing. ~~~~~~~~~~ Erich Schneider said: >I certainly want to learn a lot more about the Temple of Eris. We know >it borrows quite a bit from Christianity (from _TLR_). However, does >it take anything from that modern "religion disguised as a joke >disguised as a religion", Discordianism? I don't recall any references >to golden apples ... I named the Temples of Eris and Discordianism was certainly in the back of my mind at the time. Whether you learn more about them or not -- I don't know at this point. My sister Jodi is workin with that storyline (the Prophet Harry and the founding of the Temples) and I'm reluctant to step on it. It's possible that "Devlin's Razor," the story about Harry Devlin, will be made available in a signed limited edition in the near future. ~~~~~~~~~~ Mike Long said: >"The Gray Maelstrom", February 1983. This very short story is, in >fact, related to DKM's Great Wheel of Existence, although probably not >to the Continuing Time. It gives some more detail on what the Flame >people know as the spacelace tunnels; in fact, the description of the >lines and spheres in LD looks like it was cut-and-pasted from this >story. Others may not think much of it, but I think it was a powerful >little story, and the consequences of what happens to Joel Gray (the >main character) could bear some exploring... This is an early and not terribly good story; I wrote it in (literally) forty minutes, a single draft. I corrected, by hand, two typoes & mailed it off to IASFM. They bought it, probably because they had 3-4 pages to fill. But Joel Gray appears again, later -- I've twice now, all unkowingly, named characters for actors. Joel Gray & William Devane are both actors; Gray was in "Cabaret," and he played Chiun in "Remo Williams." (He was the only decent part of that movie.) William Devane is apparently an actor in soaps; he was in "Knot's Landing." I'd never heard of him and still have no idea what he looks like. ~~~~~~~~~~ On the subject of the AI "Ring": Josh Kaderian says: >Here's another question (maybe *I'm* just being dense): What did Sedon >hope to achieve through the Tricentennial Rebellion? Ring says that Sedon >is the best hope it's seen for the liberation of the U.S., but nobody else >seems to think that the rebels have much of a chance. And, indeed, they >don't. Was Sedon just blind to the truth? Or was the rebellion *designed* >to fail? Help! Sean says: >Ring almost certainly knew about the truth the entire time; I don't think >it would have gotten involved in a plan that would result in the deaths of >millions of people -- *Americans* -- if it did not see a reasonable chance >of success. And, unlike human people, Sedon could not Speak to Ring. >As it is, I am *very* curious to find out more about post-revolution >Ring. Given how much damage he caused to Americans, if it were human, >I would have expected a massive emotional breakdown. It'll be interesting >to see how Ring handles it. (Especially since the AI Wars are coming up soon...) Chris Siebenmann says: >Perhaps Ring has a breakdown from the events of the revolution >(maybe it lashes out at the other AIs for not helping it), and this >is what brings about the AI Wars? >Or do we know roughly what the sides are in the AI Wars, and the >sides make this implausible? also, in another post, Chris said: >Ralf didn't sound like he wanted to tangle with Ring, and Ring didn't >recognize Ralf the last time the two met; I suspect they won't be >fighting unless Ralf has to. DKM seems to present Ring as something >that no single AI could or would tackle on its own. Finally, Dcutter says: >Humm.. if RING is a powerful and all controlling as DKM makes him, it >would seem he could singlehandedly screw up the PFK pretty badly. I >mean he could fake troop deployment, he could cause small 'accidents' >which would hadly be tracable. I think Ring is not ready yet. Fascinating speculation ... Ring is something *nobody* would tackle on its own unless it had to, and that includes DataWatch. And Trent, and Ralf. But in "AI War" all the choices are going to dry up. 1. Ring has gamed this all out *far, far* in advance. The only other person who's done this at the level Ring has is Trent; you learn in AI War that he's built a monster computer called "The Black Beast" where he's been uploading himself and running simulations.... 2. Sedon was out of his society, his time, and his depth. Ring *knew* tha the `76 rebellion would fail. It never became a story point, but I rather doubt Ring would have ever let Sedon use those nukes -- 3. Ring has immense stress over all this -- Sean made a great guess. Its two imperatives are leading it in very different directions ... 4. Don't assume Trent and Ring are on the same page. Trent owes Ring one -- but this was a purely pragmatic move on Ring's part, back when Ring rescued him in `62. Ring has no loyalty; but it knows that humans do. ~~~~~~~~~~ Chris Siebenmann says: >I never got a clear feeling for why Trent went to the space >station in the first place -- to prevent the Earth Datanet being >crashed? To do strange things to it himself? Give that man a cigar. In "AI War" Trent ends up back on the InfoNet RelayStation, four years later, pretending to be someone else. One of the people there comments about how Trent the Uncatchable had his hands on it for three straight days, how Trent must have done *something* to it (though they've been checking it for four years now) ... Trent agrees. "I bet he did." >From the book: "Hello," said Trent politely. A polite, gender-neutral voice said, "Hello, M. Yovia." Trent felt himself smiling, muscles in his cheeks moving. He said via inskin, MAN THE IS THIS. PAYS CRIME. CLOTHES MOTHER'S HIS WEARS GENERAL SECRETARY THE. He waited five seconds, and said softly, WAKE UP. There was a pause so short Trent was not sure it was not his imagination. The InfoNet Relay station said, "Hello, Boss." ~~~~~~~~~~ >From: sef@kithrup.com >Subject: Re: Mr. Barnes, did you read this book? >>I've got a little question. Who's the other heroine? >Callia, I suspect. Yes. Steve liked her; yes, he read the book. The genocide he was referring towas the destruction of the Neanderthals, in Back to the Beginning. This ~~~~~~~~~~ Bryant Durrell responded to someone else: >>Ian says: >>Does Sedon really seem that Satanic to you, or Dvan that divine? >>Certainly Denice didn't seem to see things as being that black and >>white. >No, not really, but I'm considering their places in Earth human >history as well. Sedon brought civilization to Earth, neh? Which >would seem to slot him into the role of Lightbringer, or Lucifer. >He's the Snake in the Garden, quite clearly. Sedon was certainly intended to be a Lucifer/Prometheus figure (not Satanic); though the bit about "Sedon/Satan" and "Dvan/Divine" hadn't occurred to me (and I don't really like it as a metaphor. It seems a bit of a reach.) ~~~~~~~~~~ Sean says: >There is a "Return of the Ultimate Webdancer," but DKM has stated that >this is *NOT* Trent -- just that a lot of people think he is. It's not Trent. ~~~~~~~~~~ "brian wells" said about Denice: >She's a worldbeater, and it takes a worldbeaterbeater to pose a threat which >makes a plotline really gripping. Denice has no Achilles heel, and this > makes her dull. Yeah. Bad planning on the part of that 15-year old boy. I had to drug her through the last chunk of "Last Dancer," taking away the Gift, just to make that book work. I'm taking steps to tone down that psychic power stuff through the rest of the Continuing Time novels (mostly by giving everyone else hardware and training that tends to make the psi stuff less useful ... that trick of Sedon's, for example, that "not being there" when she tried to read his mind.) ~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Foster said: >Sedon's crime: "Rather than serve, I made a servant of the Flame that >lived within me, the Flame that game me my life, that taught me to Move." >Sedon: "The Flame is a thing of living creatures . . . " (p98) >Hmmm . . . sounds like the Force to me. Let's see . . . I don't have EE >handy, but I believe the Continuing Time was created within a year or >two of Star Wars coming out. Wouldn't do for me to claim that Star Wars didn't influence my writing. It did, a lot. I was 14 when that movie came out; "Long Run" has very intentional "Indie Jones" structures in it, as does (big surprise) "Trent the Uncatchable and the Temple of `Toons." This opening story in "AI War" But that said, the Flame certainly wasn't *intended* to be the Force. Within a certain range, though, the similarities are going to be there. ~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Foster said: >And I think that (Vance learning he was wrong) would make an _excellent_ >story. The honest man >working for the wrong people sees his mistake, and sets out to correct >it. And it would fit in well with his killing Trent in "Players". (If >Vance comes to the conclusion that the UN is wrong, then he'll probably >see that Trent is largely in the right. Wait for Crystal Wind. Fourteen years of Nasty War pass between "AI War" and the beginning of "Crystal Wind" -- and Vance has had a lot of time to reflect. Trent is Vance's obsession between `69 and `80; between `80 and `94, when Crystal Wind starts, he's had more time to think things over than he had to chase Trent in the first place. ~~~~~~~~~~ Josh Kaderlan says: >I don't know if any of you have read Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash, but in >that book, hackers' Images in cyberspace are called avatars. Stephenson >makes some mention of a Japanese virtual reality system which originated the >term. Makes for interesting speculation. I fired up Word and looked into my "Tales" file (which has all the CTS material in One Big File); I first used the word "avatar" in Last Dancer, and used it to refer to Neil Corona as an avatar of The Name Storyteller, and to a copy of Ralf. I don't know if TLD predates "Snow Crash" or vice versa, but it hardly matters. TLD was delivered to Bantam in early 1991, in its first draft. Given the realities of lead times in publishing, I doubt either of us could have seen the other's book prior to turning in his novel. Frankly, the word strikes me as relatively obvious, in context -- I very much enjoyed Snow Crash (except at the purely business level. Watching the resources and effort Bantam put into publishing that boy's first novel put me into a wickedly vile mood.) ~~~~~~~~~~ Brian Wells said: >I could be imagining it, but I get the feeling she took her father's last >words to her a little too seriously. There's an arrogance about her that >just rubs me the wrong way. She's less arrogant than Trent (or me, for that matter); she's also less charming about it. She wasn't designed, as a character, to be liked the way Trent was; I'd already done one Trent. ~~~~~~~~~~ Simon Cardinale says about Douglass Ripper: > He seems barely above squid in most ways. Compared to Trent he's >not even a mollusk. :-) I like Douglass. He's an ordinary guy, probably no brighter than your average Congressthing, who's working hard, and doing his best, trying to treat the people around him decently. There are people like him all over the place. Weirdly enough, he reminds me a little of Clinton -- that earnestness, that desire to be liked -- except that Ripper's got a mean streak Clinton should learn. Clinton's probably a failed president at this point; I had hopes for the man. But he's afraid to upset people, and as a result he gets, quite understandably, no respect. ~~~~~~~~~~ Greg Wheatley says: > It occurs to me that perhaps, just perhaps, that on this list we're >making a few assumptions. The first of these would seem to be that DKM >wouldn't lie to us in his posts. This to me seems a pretty big assumption. I won't lie to you. I may mislead, I may obfuscate, I may skip over stuff I don't feel like talking about; in going through this archive and responding I've done all these things *plus* saying "No Comment." But no outright lies. I play as fair as possible given, as Wheatley notes, my need to make a living. ~~~~~~~~~~ Mike Long says (regarding Ola Blue & UEI): >that may not betrue. At one point Storyteller says something to the >effect of "...[Ola], whose name is no longer spoken in the halls of >UEI...." I take that to mean that she either left or was kicked out. She certainly *starts out* working for UEI; see the FACE.ASC file I distributed. This is set during that period of her life. She goes rogue, though -- ~~~~~~~~~~ Mike Long ponders: >Something to ponder: Could an AI see Storyteller or Camber while they >are in "fast Time"? AIs do live 20000 times (or something like that) >faster than people. Of course, the AI would have to have the right >monitoring device, like an X-Ray detector--a regular holocam won't do. If you remember, many months from now, check the first conversation between Ralf and Trent, in "AI War" -- ~~~~~~~~~~ Andrew Bailey and others speculated about casting a "Long Run" movie. Since I wrote such a screenplay, you can assume I've also played this game -- The only actor I can think of who would have been *perfect* for Trent was Val Kilmer, 5-6 years ago. He's too old today, unfortunately. I like Christian Slater a great deal and wouldn't have been upset to see him cast; he's *also* too old today. A young actor named Jeremy London, who appeared in "Shoot the Moon" 2-3 years ago, would do a good job, I think. Josh Kaderlan, the bastard who suggested Wil Wheaton, I wanna have a word with you. I'm a charter member of the "Gut Wesley Like a Fish" fan club. Mohammed Vance: Tommy Lee Jones comes to mind; Arnold Schwarzenegger's an obvious (but rotten) choice; so, for different reasons, is Gerard Depardieu. He's a hell of an actor but I don't think he's physical enough. If he can play French, I think Avery Brooks might do a *great* job; he was on my list even before DS9 and nothing he's done since has changed my thinking. I love Robert Duvall but he's probably too old. Carl Castanaveras: Ray Liotta, Jason Patric, or (possibly) Pierce Brosnan. Ray Liotta's my first choice by a Wide Wide Margin. He plays Crazy better than practically anyone ... Denice Castanaveras: Nobody comes to mind. The girl who played Winnie on the Wonder years would have done a decent job of playing her as a child; I can't think of an actress who I'd pick for this one as an adult. Jerill Carson: Michael Ironside, Scott Glenn, Harry Dean Stanton, Ronny Cox. Jack Nicholson would be typecasting. Emile Garon: Mandy Patinkin, Christopher Lambert, Lance Hendrickson. Patinkin my first choice by a mile. Jimmy Ramirez: No Casting. Melissa du Bois: Anne Parillaud; Mia Sara; possibly Bridget Fonda. Probably none of them are physical enough, though -- Elite don't have to be *huge* but they are not delicate creatures. Linda Hamilton in T2 had the look down cold. Ralf, the Wise and Powerful: David Bowie on a runaway. Callia Sierran: Amanda Donahoe, Lori Petty. I adore Winona Ryder (Heathers is one of my 3-4 favorite movies) but she doesn't feel right for Callia, Denice, or Melissa. Lan Sierran: River Phoenix, except he died. Suzanne Montignet: Emma Thompson, period. Originally it used to say "Audrey Hepburn, period," except she died. Malko Kalharri: Robert Duvall, Tommy Lee Jones, Harrison Ford, Sam Elliott. My final take on all of this is -- Animation. Good computer animation -- Soundtrack music? Well, this isn't appropriate, but Bob Seger's "Still the Same" -- there's a gambling scene in "AI War" that was inspired by that song. Moving game to game No one standing in your way Turning on the charm Long enough to get you by That song always reminds me of Trent. I doubt it would work as soundtrack music, though. Too mellow. Also, anything, anything, anything by Melissa Etheridge. I didn't know who Mahliya Kutura was supposed to be until I saw Melissa in concert the first time. Abruptly I was in love. She's gay, though; too bad.... ~~~~~~~~~~ Josh Kaderlan says: >Okay, we know that Camber Tremodian kills King Arthur, and we know that >Dvan fought in the Battle of Camel Hill with Arthur. In fact, DKM makes >rather a big deal of Dvan's involvement in that battle. So my question >is, why? Does King Arthur play some important part in the Continuing >Time? Any groundless speculation is welcome. In 527 A.D., Arthur fell at the battle of Camel Hill; this is one of the half dozen firm historic facts we have about him. (There are no facts about Merlin/Taliesin worthy of the name.) I can tell you that in the novel "In Time of Legend" a very youngish looking fellow shows up in Camelot ... and he looks a lot like Arthur. People assume he's Arthur's son. It is, of course, Camber Tremodian. The Name Storyteller is onhand too, playing the role you'd expect.... "The Lord in His Castle," 540 etc., is about Dvan in the years following the loss of his memory; when he marries a normal woman and expects to grow old with her.... **************** *** 12-30-94 *** **************** From: d.moran8@genie.geis.com To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Comments about List, Part 3 -------- ~~~~~~~~~~ There was a big fight about copyrights & such: >Nice though having the books in ascii form at an FTP site somewhere >might be, it most assuredly *is* a copyright violation. We'd be doing >Mr. Moran a disservice by pirateing his work. I hope to get paid for my work, yes. But I'm not a damn fool about it; at some point we have to figure out a way to get stories out across the net and PGP encryption and such are all nice, but in the final analysis anything that can be read, can be copied. There will always be piracy. I disapprove of it; I think people have a right to set prices for their products and then either sink or swim in the marketplace. But the *solutions* to piracy that I've seen (if they would work, which I doubt) are so draconian that I'd rather not see them tried. I've heard cops say that 15% of the population will steal anything that's not nailed down; 15% will *never* steal; and the 70% in the middle is why we have locks. I'm in favor of protecting my work in some fashion that doesn't inconvenience honest people. As for whether I'm in favor of "stealing" -- depends on who you're stealing from, doesn't it? I stole food when I was a homeless teenager; I've never regretted it. I also stole books, as a homeless teenager; I regret that rather more. But I'm not going to cast stones. Life is difficult; we all make our own decisions, and I'm not going to preach at anyone. I haven't the right, and more importantly, I haven't the inclination. Personal decision. J.C. Duval said: >How do you defend the copyright then of such digital information? Not an issue, J.C. Copyright law is relatively clear in this area; under the Berne Convention, which most countries are signatory to, my rights are essentially protected unless I make a point of giving them away. Even online. ~~~~~~~~~~ Greag Wheatley said: >P.s.: I did hear a rumour that DKM won't be publishing anything for >about two years after the finalisation of his divorce settlement on the >grounds that anything published within two years will be adjudged to be >partially written while he was still married, but that's just a rumour And an untrue one, too. ~~~~~~~~~~ Sol Foster said: >Also understand that, from what I have heard, DKM is loaded, so money >probably isn't an issue for him. Where the hell did you hear that? I make very good money doing computer consulting; but I'm a long way from being loaded. To date I've made ... well, nobody's business, but not enough to make a living at it, writing books. I have two younger sisters waitressing and a two-year old nephew without a father who needs money. I'm not hurting and I'm not complaining -- and I'm not rich. [What can I say? I should have known better than to trust a Usenet rumor! -S] ~~~~~~~~~~ Sean said: >ago. (A "long time ago" would have been by late '90.) (In fact, >tLD ends with "1989-1992," so I believe that's how long it took to >be written.) I'd have to look at my files; a lot of the delay in TLD was mine. A lot was Bantam's; my editor went out to have a baby midway through it -- the copmpleted mss. sat dead for 7 months -- and then they requested *three* revisions before accepting it. The book was first delivered early in `91. ~~~~~~~~~~ Andrew McColl said: >Hi Sorry for coming in on this topic late. But I was wondering whether >anyone has considered sending a copy of this discussion to Bantam. (Minus Copies (with the various flames deleted) will be sent to both my agent and my current editor at Bantam, Tom Dupree. ~~~~~~~~~~ Sean said: >a) Did everyone notice that telepathy is instantaneous, or at least so >much faster than _c_ that it doesn't matter? (When Denice touched Trent's >mind in _The Long Run_, while he was on Luna.) >b) Carl says that reading minds is painful -- yet none of the telepaths >ever show that. Denice is afraid for Trent to touch her, when she's not >sure of who he is, and she did not like being touched by what's-her-name, >at the end of _Emerald Eyes_ -- but, despite how much we see things from >her point of view, we never really see any of the discomfort or pain. >So... was Carl exaggerating (or out and out lying?) for PR reasons? A) Telepathy is "so much faster than _c_ that it doesn't matter"; it is B) When Denice touches Ichabod, early in TLD, she spends the next 2-3 hours sitting in the bathroom with a splitting headache. I'm not sure if there are any other scenes where this level of deep contact is shown, off the top of my head. Conceivably I've made a mistake somewhere (I've made others) but I'm pretty careful. ~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Weil said: >I got the distinct impression that David wanted to die; didn't want to >live any longer with what he'd become. And as for Denice going along I hate preaching at people in a heavy-handed way; but if I believe anything I believe we have the rights to our own lives and our own bodies. David wanted to die; he had the right to die; Denice did the right thing in helping him. ~~~~~~~~~~ J.C. Duval wondered whether the PKF was presenting a solid front: >Case A: [edited]... further questions on whether the PKF is full >of information holes or impermeable as some pretend. >Case B: Everyone knows that Trent has walked through a wall after the >fact. This obviously signifies that the PKF is full of holes. What >interest would they have in glorifying, even mythifying, their number 1 >enemy? Issueing an APB saying: suspect can walk through walls:). That's *very* funny, that APB ... >Case C: Etc. >Case D: Yet Vance is confident that only the PKF will know of Mirabeau's >crimes by the end of TLD. Wishful thinking? Is Vance that naive? Distinguish between PKF rank and file, PKF DataWatch, and PKF Elite. Different groups in some senses; and Vance is convinced the Elite will keep secrets. In AI War, Chandler talks with Trent: Trent watched the man's casual attitude, watched the tossed-off question. "You have people inside the PKF, don't you?" Trent smiled at him. "I know you think I do." ~~~~~~~~~~ David Silberstein writes: >Can anyone place "The King of Corona"? It sounds familiar.I doubt that its >any connection to Neil Corona - it takes place about two hundred >years after his time (I may be reading too much into the brief story >which mentions him)(pg374) My father was born in Corona, New York, in 1930. "Corona," on the planet Tin Woodman, is named after a man who's most likely one of Neil's descendants. (Tin Woodman is the planet that ends up being named "Domain.") >Why didn't Tommy Ho/Richard Yo have his legs regenned - when he had >30 years to do it? Sorry. Can't answer that one, because it gives stuff away. But there's a reason. And his name is "Robert." ~~~~~~~~~~ joshua kronengold said: >Talked to a contact at Bantam-Spectra (an editor). She says that they >are considering reprinting the early books, contingent on the sales of >the new one that going to be printed "soon." Quoted the chances at >about 50-50. Just out of curiosity, if Joshua's still on the list, who was the editor? ~~~~~~~~~~ Maureen S. O'Brien said: >Have you noticed that Moran consistently fixes on certain >features for metaphors and accessories in his stories? >Moran also is interested in the French, music, hackers\nets\AIs, >and nukes...and probably a few things I haven't noticed yet. >What do you think it all means, she said, trying to sound like >an English teacher. It's also called "lack of imagination." I do find myself being drawn back to the same motifs and subjects, and it bothers me a little. I think I need to improve in this area. ~~~~~~~~~~ Michael Burrage has the same bug I do; the desire to analyze and chart and measure. He posted a remarkable piece of work, a timeline, to this list that was fascinating. I haven't compared it with my timeline line by line yet, but I probably will. What kills me is that he did this by *reverse- engineering*. [TIMELINE OF EVENTS (Heavily Edited by the Author) is now in file timeline] ~~~~~~~~~~ joshua kronengold said: >Hey, look; the guy write's pretty slow; he's allways done so. >And, after all, he just moved. There's some truth to this; but the "Last Dancer" period was bad. Right now I have, a year after "Last Dancer" was published, "AI War" 98.5% complete, and "Lord November" 80 or 85% complete. Not too bad. ~~~~~~~~~~ mfitz said: >DKM also 'promised' that there would never be >another delay as long as the one between tLR and tLD. It was 4 years between "Long Run" and "Last Dancer." It's been a bit over a year since "Last Dancer" was published. Cut me some slack, guys. ~~~~~~~~~~ Sean said: >GM [Gray Maelstrom] is nice. DKM also apparantly likes that story about >the djinn that de Nostri remembers in _The Last Dancer_ 8-). It offers >some... interesting possibilities about the Serathin -- and makes me >wonder, again, about Storyteller's version of the creation of the >universe. I'd wanted to read this one because it dealt so much with the >spacelace, hoping it gave some insight into tLD. It did, but not much. >(I *think* the patterns in the spacelace are, in some way, indications >about the real world. Or control it in some fashion...) All right, I'm come clean on this one, though you might not appreciate it, since it opens up more questions than it answers. The spacelace tunnels are the neural pathways (rough analogy) of the Chained One. ~~~~~~~~~~ Radrayer says, regarding publication dates: >Hmm. That's not what the back of TLD said. Are there any problems >between DKM and his editors, or is he just taking his time? :-) Since that blurb was written I've had four editors at Bantam. It's not all my fault. My current editor had never *heard* of me before I was given to him. ~~~~~~~~~~ Jim Sather says: >In my rereadings I've been watching for references as to why Camber and >Storyteller are opponents, but I haven't found much that really >explains why. I get the impression though that it's largely personal, They're closely related and it's *very* personal. ~~~~~~~~~~ And finally, in closing, regarding the talk about gaming in the Continuing Time universe: No comment. Do whatever makes you happy. I've tried gaming and it doesn't work for me; feels like work. All that making things up makes me think I should get paid for it ... :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I started off to write a page or two of my reactions to your thoughts, and got a little involved. Two years worth of conjecture and discussion boiled down into about two or three hours of reading. What an experience. **************** *** 12-31-94 *** **************** From: colomon To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: CT posting during holidays. -------- I'd just like to briefly urge everyone to restrain from sending out a bunch of long posts on the mailing list until the holidays are over. No doubt quite a few of the people on the list are not reading their mail during the holidays, and sending out the kind of thing that I, at least, have a strong desire to send out at the moment, will probably overflow their mailboxes. After, say, Tuesday, go for it. There's a lot to discuss! Thanks, Sol **************** *** 12-31-94 *** **************** From: "russell s. katz" To: continuing-time@umich.edu Subject: Re: Comments about List, Part Two. -------- On Sat, 31 Dec 1994 d.moran8@genie.geis.com wrote: >Andrew Bailey and others speculated about casting a "Long Run" movie. >Since I wrote such a screenplay, you can assume I've also played this >game -- > >The only actor I can think of who would have been *perfect* for Trent >was Val Kilmer, 5-6 years ago. He's too old today, unfortunately. Yes, I think Val Kilmer would have done a great job. Now that I think about it, his character in "Real Genius" reminds me a little of Trent. > Josh Kaderlan, the bastard who suggested Wil Wheaton, I wanna have a word > with you. I'm a charter member of the "Gut Wesley Like a Fish" fan club. > > Mohammed Vance: Tommy Lee Jones comes to mind; I don't know...ever since EE, when Carl faces Vance for the first time and thinks to himself how HUGE the man is...I have always thought that the man's size would be an important physical part of the character. The only two actors I have seen with the physical stature I imagined are Dolph Lundgren and the guy who played Jaws in the James Bond movies. Of course neither could fulfill the rest of the requirements for the character. > Carl Castanaveras: Ray Liotta, Jason Patric, or (possibly) Pierce Brosnan. > Ray Liotta's my first choice by a Wide Wide Margin. He plays Crazy better > than practically anyone ... I haven't seen much of Ray Liotta, but what I have seen tells me he would be PERFECT. Jeez...this would make one HELL of a movie! (And cost a bundle) I have thought about this before...but the previous article brought it all back. Russell Katz rkatz@beta.tricity.wsu.edu